Dr. J.J. Peterson: Mastering Storytelling, Clarifying Your Brand Message & Making Your Audience the Hero | Ep31

Dr. J.J. Peterson is a leading expert in messaging and marketing, helping thousands of organizations grow using the StoryBrand Framework. With a PhD in Communication and 20 years of experience, he has taught and practiced communication theory worldwide. As Head of StoryBrand, he has led workshops and keynotes across the globe, guiding leaders to craft clear, compelling messages.

J.J. is a Wall Street Journal bestselling author and host of the Marketing Made Simple podcast. He teaches at Vanderbilt’s Owen Graduate School of Management and has worked in marketing and PR for multinational nonprofits. His diverse background includes studying C.S. Lewis in Oxford, directing a documentary, and debating theology at Sundance. J.J.’s passion is equipping businesses with the tools to communicate effectively and drive success.

In this conversation, Dr. J.J. Peterson reveals the power of storytelling in marketing and why most businesses fail to connect with their audience. He explains how the StoryBrand framework helps brands craft a clear, compelling message that makes their customers the hero—leading to better engagement, trust, and conversions.

He breaks down the 7 key elements of an effective business story, the difference between positioning yourself as the hero vs. the guide, and why balancing empathy and authority is crucial in personal branding. He also shares insights on aligning business with personal values, how life transitions shape career decisions, and why authenticity is the future of marketing.

If you've ever struggled to clarify your brand message, attract the right clients, or communicate your value in a way that truly resonates, this episode is packed with actionable insights. J.J. shares how great marketing isn’t about selling—it’s about storytelling, connection, and guiding your audience toward success.

Connect with Dr. J.J. Peterson:

Email: drjj@drjjpeterson.com

Follow Dr. J.J. Peterson on Instagram: @DrJJPeterson

Core Themes

• Storytelling in Business & Marketing
• The StoryBrand Framework & Messaging Clarity
• Positioning Customers as the Hero in Branding
• Authenticity & Human Connection in Marketing
• The Future of Marketing & AI’s Role in Communication
• Aligning Business with Personal Values & Life Transitions
• The Psychology of Storytelling & Customer Engagement
• Building a Business That Feels Aligned & Fulfilling

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Transcript

Christian
What is up beautiful people? This is Christian from the Successful Spiritualpreneur Podcast. And today I'm super excited to have on the show Dr. J.J. Peterson. He is a leading expert in messaging and marketing, helping thousands of organizations growing using the Story Brand framework. With a PhD in communication and 20 years of experience, he has taught and practiced communication theory worldwide as the head of Story Brand, which you can check out at storybrand.ai.

He has led workshops and keynotes across the globe, guiding leaders to craft clear, compelling messages. J.J. is a Wall Street Journal bestselling author and the host of the Marketing Made Simple podcast. He teaches at Vanderbilt's own graduate school of management and has worked in marketing and PR for multinational nonprofits. His diverse background includes studying CS Lewis in Oxford, directing a documentary, and debating theology at Sundance. J.J.'s passion is equipping businesses

with the tools to communicate effectively and drive success. Welcome to the show, J.J.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Thank you very much for having me.

Christian
Yeah, such an honor. So I want to know, since this is the podcast that is at the intersection of entrepreneurship and spirituality, how does that integrate right now in your life? Like you have a long established podcast, Marketing Made Simple, and how do things transition right now? mean, obviously you're an expert and we will spend some time talking about storytelling itself as well, but I just want to know.

what's going on in your life currently because I think that conversation of like what's authentically happening for you, how's your life shifting, how it's changing, what's on for you is what's always interesting.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah.

You know, for me, spirituality and to some degree faith, but really spirituality has to be at the center of all of what I do. It's kind of drives a lot of my purpose and when I, where I spend my time. And I would say when I'm most aligned in with business and my spirituality, that's when I'm succeeding the best at both. And when I allow one to drop off that even in literally, you know,

business or spirituality, then honestly my life kind of starts to crumble a little bit. It's kind of interesting. That's why I was so excited when you asked me to be on this podcast because my life really is grounded in trying to make sure that all of the parts of me are connected in everything that I do. so I guess when you ask the question is like, how is that intersection right now? What's very interesting is so I have been at Storybrand for 10 years now.

And Storybrand, for people who don't know, is an organization. We help companies clarify their message using story frameworks. So teaching people how to tell and communicate with compelling stories. And I've been doing that for 10 years. In my entire life, I was single and no kids, never married. Well, last year I got married and I had, and even

before that, year, about a year before that, my husband's children moved in with us before even we got married, kind of a bunch of circumstances. And so we, so that changed everything in my life. And whereas before, you know, I could get up in the morning and have my coffee and sit outside and take in nature and just kind of be there quietly.

And then I could do my work all day, and then I could come home and I could be in community or I could not. could do, you know, I kind of had a lot of freedom and all of that changed in the last year. And I've had to learn new practices of how to ground myself spiritually and how to ground myself just in my own person. And what that also did is it began to say that the things that I was doing at work were no longer aligning with the priorities.

in my own personal life. And so what's happened is I've actually taken a little bit of a step back from Storybrand. I'm still at Storybrand. My title is still head of Storybrand. I still work with Storybrand and do everything there, still travel around the world and actually help companies. I'm leaving for Holland next week to work with companies in Europe, help them clarify their message. But because

I no longer felt aligned with what I was doing at work, with what was happening at home. I actually am only working part time with Storybrand and doing some things on my own that gives me more freedom to spend time with my kids, to give them some safety and grounding after some big changes, and also to figure out new rhythms in my own life because

Christian
you

Dr. J.J. Peterson
I'm not a morning person, so getting up at five in the morning to do my meditation and do my coffee and sit outside, it's not gonna happen. It's not going to happen. So I already have to get up earlier now to get the kids ready for school. So I have had to in the past year really figure out new ways of grounding myself. And I have found in this transition that I am actually not only more aligned with my own priorities, but I am actually doing better work.

Christian
Hmm.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
as well. So it's kind of interesting even in stepping back from work a little bit to kind of focus on some different priorities allows me to even be better at my job than I was before.

Christian
Yeah, it's fascinating how, you in life, like the pendulum swings in one direction and then just comes back. It sounds like you're at that point in your life where you just started swinging in the other direction two or three years ago and now you just want to savor the moments, the presents, the kids, your husband, your partnership, just being with a family and like that different just...

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yes, absolutely.

Christian
energy field that that brings. I have a little one too, he's six years old, turning seven in April. So yeah, once you have kids in your life, they do completely change your daily structure and everything.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Absolutely.

I turned 50 this year. And so literally for 40, know, 45 years of my life, I was single, very happy, kind of traveled the world, everything, and I loved my life and I loved my life now. But the rhythms that I had before do not work with my new circumstances. And I think if there's a theme even in this past year of what I've been trying to do is figure out how to develop new rhythms.

to fit with the new circumstances that I've chosen in life, but also that kind of came as a surprise in many ways.

Christian
Yeah, and it's really cool that you have, you know, just come from this long career background and now can really like settle into the situation of like, how do I want this area or my life to look like now? Kind of like a little bit lifestyle design. lot of people, especially when we're younger, we don't have like...

along career path or like a super stable income. So we can like do everything at the same time, kind of figure it out, you know, but like you have the luxury of really thinking and intentionally creating the space you want to have with your family and your kids now going forward. So that's really cool. I love that.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah, and it's, you know, I figure I'm at this point in my life where I have our youngest is eight. So we have about 10 years left with him. And I probably only want to work for another 10 to 15 years myself. You know, I, a lot of my contemporaries, I'm hearing them say things like, I would not be good at retirement. I don't look forward to retirement. I am the opposite. I think I would be really good at retirement. And so I really see that I have between about 10 more years with the kids at home.

And then about to 15 years total left in the work life that I want to offer at a full time kind of level. I'll never be done. I'll probably continue teaching at Vanderbilt and do some other things. But as far as like a full time kind of work, 10 to 15 years. And so it really has given me the moment really, you know, especially turning 50. I think those marker moments in our lives always kind of give us that moment to pause and reevaluate.

and look back and learn from the things that we've done. And I believe mourn some of the choices that we've made and celebrate some of the choices we made and kind of mark that moment and then say, okay, now what does life look like moving forward? What am I going to carry with me that I learned from the past, both in my mistakes and in my victories or celebration moments?

And what am I carrying forward with me? And I have, like I said, about 10 years really with my children and about 10 to 15 years in work. What do I want that to look like? And you're right. I am privileged at this point in the sense that I get to design some of that myself. You know, when I was 20, 30 years old, you know, there were times that I was literally living out of my car, you know, working, moving around to people's couches by choice, most of it, but not always.

And to be at a point in my life that I get to choose my path forward in many ways, there's a lot of freedom in that. And I've just kind of taken that time to go, what have I learned over the past even 10, 15 years in my own career? What mistakes did I make that I can learn from and what things can I look back and celebrate? And what kind of life do I wanna create these next 10 years?

Christian
Hmm beautiful. Yeah, it kind of reminds me, you know how like every seven, you know, you have Saturn return at certain stages, the astrology thing, I'm if you're familiar with it, but like at age 49, Saturn for everyone in our lives, right? Saturn is actually opposite where it was at your birth. So it is oftentimes just a time for re-evaluation, you know, really looking at things.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Christian
um, what you have done so far in your entire life. So it totally makes sense that that transition is happening in your life. And, um, yeah, I'd really, so tell us what you've learned in 49 years or 50, um, about storytelling. Like what can we, like what are nuggets that, you know, we can take away and then we can implement in our, in our business. And we have a lot of our audience are a lot of like,

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah.

You

Christian
coaches, personal brands, individuals, change makers, thought leaders in different industries. So what can we give them that inspires them?

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah. So there's, there's a lot. So my PhD is in narrative theory and communication. And so I'll kind of hone in on two different things here. One is business kind of communication. And the other is how to live your life as a leader. And both are grounded in story. So the first thing is that most people, when they're telling stories about their business,

Like, whenever I go into work with a company, they say, we want to tell our story. And they want to tell a great story. And I immediately go, yes, I will help you do that. And then I go in and work with them. And I show them very quickly that the story actually isn't about them. The story that all businesses and thought leaders and coaches and everybody out there needs to be telling is your customer's story.

you need to be inviting your customer into a story that they are the hero of. Because every single one of us wakes up every day as the main character in our own movie, right? I'm the main character in my movie today. You're the main character in your movie today. Every person listening is the main character in their movie. So if us as a business, if I'm trying to reach that audience and I'm telling my story and my customer is living a story,

then in reality we're in conflicting or sometimes opposite stories, right? And that people feel that when you go in, like if you go into a car dealership, I'll just use an easy mark. If you go into a car dealership and you say, hey, I'm looking for a mid-sized car that I can take my kids to school in. And they go, well, hey, I've got this beauty Lamborghini that's on the lot that I think you would look great in. What's happening in that moment is that car dealer

is trying to win their story. They're trying to be the hero of their story and they're not even paying attention to my story. I'm going and saying, I want a nice mid-size and they're going, but you're about to be 50. I have this great Lamborghini who would love to look at it. And we immediately see those people as slimy and we don't want to go back to that car dealership. Well, when we as businesses and thought leaders communicate our own story, we actually come across that same way. We come across as a little bit slimy.

because we're trying to win our story, which means we're trying to get more money from our customers and they can sense that. But when we position the customers, the hero of the story, then we win and they win. And the role of the thought leader of the business is not to play the hero. The role of the thought leader and the business is to play the guide. In every movie,

There is a hero. There's actually all movies are the same. There's really seven elements to a good story that I go in when I go in and work with companies. I teach them all of this, but I'll give a very high level explanation.

In the beginning of a movie, we have to know first off what the character wants. Very early on in the story, the character must want something. Then the story gets interesting when this character encounters a problem. If there is no problem in the story, there is no story, right? If you just see people walking around a park smiling all day, that we're not paying attention to that story. It doesn't hook us. So a main character, we have to know that they want something. They want to get

the race, they want to win the race, they want to get the girl, you know, they need something to want, but then a problem gets in the way of that. Then screenwriters introduce a character called the guide, somebody that comes along to help the hero win. So in Star Wars, this is Obi-Wan Kenobi in Lord of the Rings, it's Gandalf in Hunger Games, it's Haymitch, somebody who is older, wiser, who comes along and helps the hero win. Then

The guide gives the hero a plan, a way to move forward. And then there's a moment that the hero has to be called to action. There's often like a ticking time bomb, something that forces the hero to act, to be in or out of the story. And then there are stakes in the story which foreshadow success, a happy ending, or forecast a tragic ending, which is failure. Those are the seven elements of every good story. A character who wants something,

who encounters a problem, who meets a guide that gives them a plan that results in success or failure. That's it. That's the entire premise of any movie you've ever seen. Those stories really have been, like that formula has been developed. actually goes all the way back to Aristotle and Plato. And they actually began studying story and studying how to move people to action through the power of story.

And that formula has been refined over the years and even gets refined right now in the box office. What we can learn from that is when we want to invite somebody into a story as a business, what we need to do is understand and articulate what is it that our customer wants. We actually have to identify that right away.

So whenever I'm at a conference and I'm speaking in front of, I'm about to do this in, like I said, I traveled to Holland next week. I'm gonna walk on stage and I'm gonna say in front of everybody, every single person here is here because they wanna grow their business. So I just immediately say, what does my customer want to grow their business? And then the second thing I say is, but here's the problem. And then I introduce a problem. I hook them, here's the problem. Most companies are wasting thousands of dollars

millions of dollars really on marketing that doesn't work. And then I get into that problem a bit more. And then I position myself as a guide. I say, I get it. I understand. But I've worked with thousands of companies all over the world helping them clarify their message. Then I give them a plan. Here's how I do it. Then I call them to action. If you want to clarify your message and grow your business, send me an email at drjj at drjjpeterson.com.

And then I say, so you can, and I talk about success and failure, stop losing customers and instead create great marketing that works. Now that's over a 30 minute message, but I hit all of those points. So what you need to do, so this is the first thing I would say when for leaders in this space.

When you are communicating your story, you should look at your website, you should look at the sales pitches, you should look at the talks that you're giving on stages and ask the question, am I positioning myself as the hero or am I positioning my customer as the hero? Everything you should be writing should be about your customer. When you help your customer win, not only will you no longer be that slimy salesman from the car dealership, but

your customers will actually see why they need you to help them win. You understand their story. You've been there. You're an expert. You can help them win. So that's the first thing I've learned in storytelling from business perspective, that we should always, always, always be positioning our customers the hero. And we do that really by creating talking points about our customer story that positions them as the hero. The second thing that I've learned

And when it comes to story and leadership in particular is this. In all good stories, there are really four main characters. Now I've talked about two of them, hero and guide, but ultimately there really are four. There's a hero, a villain, a victim and a guide.

The victim exists in a story for the purpose of making the hero look good and the villain look bad. That's their entire role in the story. The story is not about them. The story really is driven by them pulling energy from either the victim or the villain, or the hero. I'm sorry, the villain or the hero.

But good stories are not written about victims who just stay victims. They're just a side character in the story.

The hero and the villain exist in the story and typically we see in stories that the hero and the villain often have a backstory of pain that motivates them. The hero works to redeem the pain, the villain works to revenge the pain. That's why you often see with villains a scar on their face. And then there's the fourth character, which is the guide.

Christian
and

Dr. J.J. Peterson
the person who helps the hero win. Now the guide is actually the strongest character in the story. This is another reason why you should always position yourself as a guide in the story is because it makes you actually strong, not weak. Heroes are weak. They're up and down. They have a lot of self doubt. They're all over the place. But with those four characters, the hero, villain, victim, guide, those all exist in stories because they all exist in us.

And in any given day, we can play one of those four characters. And the reality is sometimes I play all four in the same day. But, you know, but I've come to realize that if they're in those moments that I play a victim that now this is not discounting actual victims like real true victims, they're true victims in the world. And there are times when things are done to me that are out of my control.

But there are often times that I play a victim. When I play a victim, I'm just trying to get sympathy from people or I'm trying to get people to help me. And that's it. That's really it. And no good story will ever be written about a victim who stays a victim. You have to transform out of that. Great stories are written about people who were victims and overcame that backstory of pain. Now you have the choice once that pain happens to you to either stay in it or come out of it.

And even in there, you have two paths. You can work to redeem the pain, and that's the hero side, or you can work to revenge the pain, which means you can be mean, you can be aggressive, you can be rude to other people. And then if you're a victim, victims, I'm sorry, villain, villains never win. They, know, in good stories, they never win in the end. But heroes, once they learn how to redeem that pain for themselves,

they actually can transform one more time and begin redeeming pain for others. And that's when they become a guide, when they help other people become a guide. And that has been probably the most inspiring thing for me outside of the clarity of message for businesses is the idea that I've really worked every day to live more in the hero space and the guide space and work very hard never to become a villain.

even though there are moments, I'm sure I'm a villain in somebody's story, but I work very hard to never become a villain. I work very hard to be a hero, meaning redeem my own pain and then learn from that and help others become a guide. And I try as hard as I can not to play a victim. If those things, bad things happen to me, I want to acknowledge them, but I don't want to live there and try to get energy from other people because of it. I want to transform.

and I want to bring redemption and then ultimately we bring redemption for others. So I just talked for a very long time about two very deep things, but I get very excited when I'm talking about story when people ask me about story. So I'll sum up with just saying two things I've learned is as a business, you always want to play the guide and you want to create messaging that positions your customers, the hero of the story in your personal life.

There are bad things that will happen, but when you live a good story, you actually transform to become the hero, and then ultimately the highest level that you can achieve is God.

Christian
Thanks for sharing all that. think, you know, you're being the guide here right now. So I just wanted to appreciate and acknowledge that, you know, it's like you've gone through so much of like the concepts and the experience and like the writing and then putting that into action that you can just speak about that topic without interruption, you know, for so long. I mean, it's impressive.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Well, or sometimes it's a little wordy, but yeah, get really, I really do get very excited about it. And that, you know, when you talk about kind of in my own life for years, I would have said, I am not a business person. I am not a marketer. I don't like that world in the sense because going back to some of our earlier questions, I genuinely, genuinely felt like the way that I was trying to live my life out in business was not aligned with my personal values.

and who I wanted to be. When I discovered that even in marketing, you don't have to brag about yourself. You don't have to elevate your product in a way that tries to make it better than anybody else or make it perfect or walk even in with insecurity of trying to quote unquote sell a product. That's what I always struggled with internally. But when I realized, the actually communicating clearly about the products that I offer.

is a service to people, truthfully. Like if I have something that can actually make, if I know that my product or service can make people's life better, I genuinely believe I am obligated to communicate it in a way that they can clearly understand why they need it. Now, if they don't need it, my clear communication should also show them, hey, actually this isn't for you, go over there. You're looking for a mid-sized car and all I have is a Lamborghini, I'm not your guide.

go over somebody else. And that is a gift to people. And when I learned that my customer is the hero and my job is really to communicate in a way that gives them a path forward to achieve what they want to achieve, fantastic. And I don't care if that's like you have a lawn service or a coaching program or you sell software or tennis shoes.

The reality is when you can communicate clearly and position your customers as a hero, they will know why they need your product and you're giving them the choice to buy it. But if they don't ever understand why they need it and you're not communicating clearly, they're never going to get the relief that they are looking for. And so when I came to that, when I finally was like, my job, creating a great website, creating great emails, creating good lead generators, good social media posts, that is actually a

gift to my customer. Yes, do I need to build my own business and build my own life? Absolutely. Like it's not completely altruistic. I don't want to pretend like, you know, that there's no money exchanged at all in any of this. No, there is. But that when people understand that, then the exchange no longer becomes transactional. It actually becomes relational. And you become the guide for the people. And that was such a relief for me.

in marketing because, like I said, I hated, even when for years I worked for nonprofits and I worked for these huge international nonprofits that were doing amazing work in central and South America and then all over Africa and seven different countries in Africa. The work they were doing was unbelievable. And yet when I sat down to create a website or emails to ask people to participate in this life-changing work.

that changed their life and the lives of the people that we were serving. I felt like I was begging for money. I felt like I was just going back and asking and begging for money. But that's because I was insecure about, I was trying to make us the hero of the story, which heroes are insecure. They have to prove themselves. But when I was able to shift and go, no, no, no, we're the guide. We know what we're doing. We've been doing it for a long time.

and we are aligned with your mission and values and we can communicate that in a way that invites you in to participate. Boy, the relief on my shoulders just left immediately because being the guide is so much easier than being the hero.

Christian
Hmm, interesting. That makes so much sense. And I think when I lay that onto the concept of having a personal brand, I think that's where a lot of confusion oftentimes comes in. So I also run an agency, it's called LovePixel Agency. build websites, funnels, and brands for personal brands. And a lot of times people have this struggle of like...

Which brand should I build? Because in three, four, five years, I will be a different person or they don't have that thought yet and they just build it, right? And then they run into the issue of three, four, five years down the road. like, I've changed so much. This is not who I am anymore. So you need to like rebrand and reinvent yourself, of course. But it's very interesting to see the dichotomy just like, and it's such a great, it's cool to have two terms for it. You know, it's like,

Right now, as my personal brand, I am the hero and I'm reinventing, evolving, even your personal life right now. But then in business where I have positioned myself on the market to be the guide, the guide for this, the guide for that, you know what mean? But like, you're always constantly evolving and shifting and changing. So that's very, it's very fascinating to be able to like, you try to be the hero and the guide and it sometimes just doesn't work that way. You know what I mean? It's funny.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah. yeah.

Well, and here's the thing, even with personal brands. So when I say that you position yourself as a guide, it doesn't mean that you don't talk about yourself. What it means is in your area of expertise. So let's say you are developing your personal brand as being a thought leader on leadership. OK, when it comes to that segment.

of what you talk about. You can actually only talk about two things about yourself. Empathy and authority. So in a good story, going back to the guide, what makes somebody a good guide in the story are those two things, empathy and authority. They understand the pain of the hero, because they have been there, they have gone through what the hero has gone through, but they've also already won the day. So they don't have to prove anything. So like Yoda,

He trained to be a Jedi, but he's now a Jedi. He doesn't need to prove anything. In Hunger Games, Haymitch went through Hunger Games, so he knows what that is like, but he won the Hunger Games. So he has empathy and authority. The only reason you matter as a guide in a customer story is if you have both empathy and authority. And those two things work really well. But...

Christian
Understand.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
any other area of your life like you talking about you having a son you can you can say I really struggle with being a dad and balancing this out let's talk about this what you can't say is I really struggle with creating websites you so a thought leader themselves whose position themselves in leadership when it comes to leadership they have empathy

and they have authority. The empathy is always about their past. So I struggled with leadership or I have been under a lot of bad leaders. But then you have to pair that with, I now understand what it takes to be a good leader.

Christian
Exactly, I think where the dissonance comes in is like when people as part of the personal brand try to be like vulnerable and empathetic but there's no authority then as part of that storyline somehow. You know, it's just like, I'm like, you know, struggling with creating websites but I want to like build one for you. like, I don't know about that. You know what mean?

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yes.

Exactly.

So that's the thing. Like imagine if I'm going into a trainer, like a gym, and I walk into it there and I say to a trainer, Hey, I'm here to lose 30 pounds. And that trainer goes, Me too. No, that's not my trainer. Like, that's empathy. But the other side of it is if I go in and I say to the trainer, you know, I'm here to lose 30 pounds. And that trainer goes, lifts up his

you know, shirt and shows me a six pack and goes, great, well, get off your butt fatty. Okay, you know, that's a lot of authority, but no empathy. But if I go in and that person says, you know, hey, I say, I'm here to lose 30 pounds. And he goes, you know what? I used to be 30 pounds overweight too, but I've been able to keep it off for about 15 years. And I've helped a hundred other people do that same thing. Now that's my, that's my guide, right? So now.

He can be like, he and I could have conversations about kids and about travel, and he can be really vulnerable in all of those other areas. But in the area that you are building your personal business brand around, you need to maintain empathy and authority. Now, again, empathy means you can talk about struggles and being vulnerable, but it all has to be in a past tense. It has to be something that you learned or happened.

So you can talk about mistakes you made all day long, as long as then you talk about how what you've learned from them and you've grown. That's the melding of empathy and authority, but vulnerability in any other space. You can talk about food. You can talk about vacation. You can talk about being a parent. You can talk about spiritual life unless you're leading people on spirituality, but you can kind of do all of that in any other area, except the one area that you're working to build your business brand around.

People will not pay money to friends just to be friends.

Christian
I love that. That's so, that's gold right there. I love that. Because like one thing that I currently also, like what I'm currently facing is like, okay, I've built my agency. It's nine years old. Like I've kind of like mastered that path. then on a personal level, I'm like, do I do now? Like I've really, also, love tea, like drinking tea all the time. I started my own Amazon FBA brand with tea. So I love.

Personal branding, website stuff, right? I love tea and I love spirituality. That's why I started a podcast like spirituality and entrepreneurship because entrepreneurship is both the agency and the tea. You know what I mean? but I think one thing that's always a little bit tricky is like on social media, then what do you talk about? Because it gets a little bit tricky because like the interests are just like, my God, could talk about anything. You know, it was like, kind of like my content pillars are like personal branding.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Christian
Tea and spirituality whereas teen spirituality only is like 20 % each if any or if so and and then the website is 60 % of like some bad content generation and things like that because You want to put your authority out there, you

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yes,

yes. Yeah, and that's what I always tell people too, actually is what exactly you just did is pick three things. People should know why they're coming to your page on the social side of things.

Christian
And I think that's

going to be one of the secrets of the coming next five years is like human personal brands mastering multiple content pillars and strains because people don't only like, it gets flat. know what I mean? I told like, it's so much easier for me when I'm on social media and I see this Instagram expert and I follow him or her. And I'm just like, that's the person for this. But that's that. You know what mean?

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah, absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

It gets old after a while. Yeah, yeah. So for me, if, exactly. So if you come to mine and I do not do this well, I'll just be very honest with you. I know what to do. I don't always do it super well, but I try very hard to basically be, if you're coming to my page, mine is a bit more on the personal side. It's stay connected with people who I've met over the years, but you're gonna see marketing. You're gonna see stuff about my family.

Christian
That's all after a while. We need, like we're humans, we need multiple layers.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
because I'm working very hard to be authentic with my who I am in my personal life combined with my business. And so you're going to see marketing and storytelling, you know, involved with that marketing family and travel. That's my three. And so the two others are much more personal. I'm not building any kind of brand around my travel or my family. But what I am building with that is authenticity in who I am. Right. So

You know, I mentioned I have a husband. Well, I grew up in the church. I grew up in, I was a pastor at one point. And so I came out of the closet very late in life. And yet, and so for much of my life, I hid the authenticity of who I am. And especially even now when it came, then when I started in marketing business, the very first organization that I worked with was the Museum of the Bible.

Christian
Hmm.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
literally helped them build the Museum of the Bible in Washington, D.C. I also have worked with Chick-fil-A. I've also worked with very large Christian organizations and many not, but also I have worked with those groups and for much of my life I hid, even after I had come out of the closet, kind of hid some of that in that space. And I decided I didn't want to do that anymore and I also wanted to be an example for other people who might be still feeling that.

that I wanted to be my truest authentic self all the way through. I just got a tattoo on my arm, can't pull my sleeve right now, that says audacity. And the idea of the audacity to really just be me, like to have that audacity. So my social media, those are the three things. Marketing, family, travel. You'll see a lot more family and travel than you will marketing right now, but those three are my three pillars.

Christian
I love her.

I love it.

And let me vision with you for a second. Like if you had a personal website, or maybe you have one, I don't know. But if you had a personal website and you would...

in a couple years start coaching people like what would you coach them about or around?

Dr. J.J. Peterson
I mean, right now I still do coach people, but it's all in the marketing space right now, mostly, and clarifying their message. The other, yeah, if I'm fully integrating all of that, I think what I really want to do ultimately is help thought leaders, excuse me. What I really want to do is help thought leaders be able to articulate their,

Christian
But if you want to fully integrate, holistically.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
guide-ness, truthfully, how to truly be a guide. And I think that involves kind of personal branding, that involves owning your own story, having confidence in your own story, and then being able to articulate the value that you bring and who you can help win, right? So it's kind of this combination of owning your own story while also helping people with theirs.

So like what I've done with a couple different people here and there is help them create courses or keynotes or even books that get all of their information. They just kind of dump everything on me and I help them organize it in a way that helps them own their story and also create essentially articulate the value they bring in business to others. I think that's what I would really do.

Christian
So a conscious brand agency.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Say that again?

Christian
a conscious brand agency.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
I love that. I'm writing that down right now.

Christian
Write it down. That's exactly what you were about to do. Because the branding and the messaging and the story telling, that you have down, no worries of course. But the question is how do you bring the authenticity into that? Because that's really important to you right now. The pendulum is swinging back. You're like, I've been in business straight out, 49, 50 years. I really want to do something.

that just like, might not be as big as companies, but I want to make sure that the people or the company is really in alignment with who I want to like support and bring out there. like, you just like, you just came out or you just started this passion brand. I really want to help you, you know? And it's really funny. And it gives me goosebumps because so tell a little bit about my story, you know? So I grew up in Germany, born and raised.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Christian
I studied international business, grew up in countryside Germany. My parents were entrepreneurs, were always working hard, especially in the summer, because we had an import-export business. So we would import mushroom and berries from Eastern Europe and sell them in Germany. And I would always help them in the summer. And it's a very seasonal business. It's very work-intensive, like relabeling baskets, repackaging things. And even though we made good money,

our family, it was a family business. My dad was always stressed out. know, my dad, parents didn't have a lot of time. like, what's all this for? You know what mean? Like, what's the point of that? Like, yes, you have great money, but you literally don't have time to hang out with your son. You know, I was like, not conscious at that level, but that's how I thought about it So it's like, whatever I'm going to do when I'm bigger, I'm going to do something that I love. You know? And so I went out there, studying international business, because when you come out of school, you're just like...

brainwash something. I don't even know what I want. You know, like I just knew that I didn't want to be a doctor or a lawyer because like when you study that you literally just like that one thing. know, humans were free, we're creative. We can be so many things. Like even right now I own three companies, you know, no problem. And like that, okay, I studied business, Munich Business School, international school. I live with a California roommate. I picked up a lot of my English accent through there. You know, I barely have any German accent anymore.

And so after that, was like, well, during that time, I skipping that step, stories always, know, long stories are good stories. Long stories are good stories, you know? Why, why you always cut it off? You know? So during my studies, I did two internships at Google, found out because like the thought, the subconscious thought was driving me, what makes people happy? Cause my dad wasn't, right? Like what makes people, any person happy? So.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah.

Christian
I was like Google happiest place to work, you know? So I did two internships there. I found out people who were, you know, working there for three to five years, even they weren't like happy. It was like a golden cage. Everything was taken care of. was fantastic for people obviously working there, but like themselves, their spirit was just like, where's your spark, bro? Like I went in there and I was just like this free rebel spirit. And I did like.

some posted art installation with sticky notes. made faces in scannable QR codes and I even got hired at fairs, but then that became too commercial. I was like, let me stop that. I was very just in this phase of finding myself, what do I want to apply my energy towards within my life? So I two internships at Google, realized it's not the place, I to keep looking.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
you

Christian
I saw a picture on social media from friends of mine who were at that time coaches when coaches were like still new, was 2012, 2014. And they were in Bali and I was like, whoa, this looks like paradise. know, like, you know, the stone marble figures and the infinity pools and the jungle. I'm like, I'm going there. You know, and that was when the whole concept of like digital nomads were like very new as well. was like, I'll be the pioneer. You know, so I went there.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Hahaha

Christian
And from business, it went straight to just like spirituality, self discovery, meditation, because that was an area of my life that was really neglected, especially growing up in Germany. Everything is just like efficiency driven, thinking with your head, like emotions are useless. They're just like between you and the goals, like very, yeah, just like materialistic focused efficiency driven mindset.

And so then in Bali, I completely went the opposite, you know, of the spectrum, pretty much. You know, I always kind of like to look at my life like this way. You start here, just like completely innocent and pure, like joy, no materialistic needs, a baby, you know. You go up here, society educates you, you need all this bullshit, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And at some point you realize it doesn't give you that much. And then you come down again, you come down again, and you go down there.

You become all hippie and just like, that's not it either. You know what mean? And then come back, but it's not that high anymore. And you just kind of start to create this oscillation. And in your own life, and I think everybody does it, whether they know it or not, in your life, you start to like find your balance, your Tao, you know, like Taoism. You find your balance, your harmony, like your point of equilibrium, so to say.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Mm-hmm.

Christian
Right. And even though, yes, within a day, I still go like, from like being a little bit of a victim to like being an authority and to being a guide, you know, like, yes, that's what happens. But like the oscillation is not as high anymore because I found my center point. And that center point I think is where for me, really that is like the bone and marrow of life. Like everyone has to find that point and not that you're always going to be there, but like what's your center of gravity? Let's just put it like that.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah.

Yes.

Christian
You know, and once it was in Bali again, you know, I lived with a shaman. We made my own tingsha, super spiritual meditation for hours, drinking water from like the volcano. Like there was no tap water. It's incredible. And then I came back from that. It's like, well, you know, I don't really have an income now. What do do? You know, so I started teaching myself how to do websites, you know? So was a freelancer for many years.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
huh.

Christian
and started building websites for free for people because I love the intersection of just functionality and beauty, combining that into one. And that's how it started. And then from freelance, after the Bali trip came back to Germany, what I'm going to do with my life, I applied to two companies that I would have worked for at that point because they really needed to be more mission driven at that point than Google. So I applied to two companies, which is Gaia, Gaia TV in the US.

And Mindvalley is a fairly big personal development company based in Malaysia. I ran through all the interviews in Mindvalley. The pay was just like, no, it's not happening. I studied. No, not good. And then Gaia never responded because I probably don't want to deal with immigrants for entry-level positions. I get it. But yeah, back in Germany, it's like, OK, I guess website is the thing.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
you

Christian
You know, so I focused in, focused, honed in my craft and, you know, just put in the hours to practice, you know, all the knowledge around, you know, that, that, you know, branding, design, website, DNS, blah, blah, blah. And I really loved it to this day. I love it. And then I came to the U S at a retreat at a spiritual retreat about a book called A Course in Miracles, which is a big blue book. I met my now wife.

And that was a whole nother heroes journey of like, you know, getting together. everything was very fast. We had a child within like, like six months, not, you know, born, like, you know, she was pregnant in six months. Like everything was very guided. It was just like, sometimes you have these situations in life where you're like being taken and you're like, yes, just, just, just go. You know what I mean? And

And I think the best things in life in general, it's just like the really the top notch, like the 0.01 % experiences in life is like you cannot even like there's no manipulation. You know, mean, there's so much like human desire. I'm going to start a company. I'm going to start love pixel. I'm going to have to run with team or sell on Amazon and blah, blah. Like this is like all like human desire, manifestation. get it. But there's there's these little

decisions or happenings in life that are the crème de la crème and they just happen. You do not need to do anything with it, you know? It's just the magic of the universe gives you something that just...

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so interesting. There's, there's so many things that you said in there that I relate to. And, know, one of the things I was just thinking of when you're talking about being with the shaman and things, one of the things I did, um, when I decided to come out of the closet, I decided to, I went on a 40 day journey and I went and I split time between, I would go to monasteries and places of silence.

And I would spend a week in solitude and silence. And then I would go to Las Vegas and I would experience the food, the shows, the drinks, everything, not like complete debauchery, but I would just like, okay, now I'm going to eat the food. I'm to be around a lot of people. Then I would go back to a monastery. And then I went on a wine tour in Napa. And then I, you know, I just kind of did this back and forth to remind myself in all of it that like,

One, there isn't one way of discovering who you are. I think, you know, because I think a lot of times like I have found myself at monasteries and I've found myself in silence on beaches, you know, like Polly on beaches. And I've also found myself, you know, in Las Vegas, in a hotel room with three really good friends who pour into me and speak to me in ways that I could never discover on my own. And so I really wanted to be like, maybe there was a piece of me that for a while got lost.

And I want to rediscover that. And I think I need to do that by spending time with myself and spending time with others. So I called it feasting and fasting, going back and forth. And one of the things when I was at a monastery, I met with a priest and I'm not Catholic, but I met with a priest and I was just listening to his story and he was, and one of the unique things about this specific location was they took an extra vow. every

Every priest takes vows of like celibacy and, you know, silence or different things like that. But one of the ones that they chose to take was the vow of stability. And they actually believed that by like staying in one place is where you found God and found spirituality and all those things. And I walked away from that. It was very challenging for me because at the time I was jumping everywhere. And I thought, do I want to take a vow of stability?

and say, I'm going to actually stay in one place. And what I realized in that moment is we all change so much that there are very few vows that I would want to take in life that would be lifelong vows. I think there are seasons. There are seasons that we step into the flow of what is happening in the universe in ourselves. And there may be seasons where you have to listen and step back and go, I actually need more silence,

And that's not my whole life is gonna change. And I'm always gonna be in a season of silence. And then there's a season that you step into, you know, being with people. I'm gonna be with people from now on more and other things. It's like, no, for that season you might be. Whatever the universe is changing, you are changing constantly. And yes, I made a vow to my husband and that is about the only vow that I believe that I'm probably going to take the rest of my life. And like, this is an absolute because

Right now, what I'm saying is I want more time with my family and a little less time in that business space. I'm going to be very choosy about the clients I take. I'm going to be very choosy about the travel I make. But as it gets, as the kids get a little bit older, that is probably going to change. They're going to require less driving around and going to soccer practice and all the things. And I may choose for a season to step back into business more. And it doesn't mean that I neglect my family.

It means that in that season, I'm moving into an aligning with where my circumstances are, with where my values are, with where my heart is, with where my community and people are. And, you know, I hear that in your story of like, some people might try to pigeonhole you as the Bolly guy who studies with, you know, who drinks water out of a volcano. And then some people might want to corner you into, well, he's the Google guy. He's the guy who works for giant companies that does he

that change big things in the world. And in those seasons, you leaned into a little bit more of that, but both pieces were always there, you know? And so that's very inspiring for me, even as I'm kind of walking through these moments right now of figuring out what do I want the next 10 years to look like? That in reality, the next six months could look like one thing, and then six months from now, it looks like something else. Leaning into and being aware of

what you are feeling, what your partner's feeling, what your family's feeling, what the world is kind of offering you and leaning into that in those moments.

Christian
Beautiful. I love that. a great, you know, what a great connection. What a great conversation.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
this has been very inspiring for me.

Christian
Such an honor, you know?

Dr. J.J. Peterson
You know, one of the questions I think you sent ahead of time that I've been thinking about at the very end is you mentioned like, what do you want people to know after you're gone? You know, what are three words? think you, you know,

Christian
Yes, it's funny because

I was thinking about the same question. like, I think now is a good time to get into that, you know?

Dr. J.J. Peterson
I didn't know

if you had set questions or not, but that's something I've been thinking about. And what I genuinely feel like this season when we're talking about seasons in this space, it's very, this might feel a little too, I don't know, I'm just gonna say it. This is genuinely where I feel like I'm in right now, is I feel like my role right now is through my actions. I don't always say these exact.

but through the way that I lead people, the way I talk to people, I don't care if I'm working with, I was just with a company up in Milwaukee that has $3 billion in assets. So I was working with that company. And then this week I was also working with an individual who is a personal coach. So they're just starting their business and they are not personal, they're a business coach. They coach one-on-one with people.

So I work with companies that are $3 billion brands and people who are literally just getting started and don't have a dollar in their bank account, business bank account. And with everybody, think the words, the feeling I want them to leave with is you are loved. I feel like in my, when you go back to that, say, personal 40 day journey kind of thing, what I discovered in that is ultimately I discovered

God loves you or the universe, however you define kind of that other that is beyond us, that it's actually for you, that a lot of times I think we think that it's against us, but the other that is out there is for us.

The second thing was also you have people who love you. You do, and they are for you. And then lastly, it's gonna be okay. Those were really the three truths that I walked away with was God, the universe loves you. You have people who love you and you're gonna be okay. And so when I live my life right now, that's how I want people to, whether it comes to honestly building a website, sending emails and in that moment they're panicking.

What I want them to know and feel in this is, hey, the universe is for you. There's a lot of people around you who are for you and you're going to be okay. And so that's really like, the whole idea is like, just you are loved. You are loved. And I think if we can lean into that and that grounding understanding, it allows all the other things that we do to be in their proper space.

Christian
Mm-hmm.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
It's not that like then we just ignore, you know what, then work doesn't matter or it doesn't matter my achievements or anything. No, no, no. All of those things don't matter. They're just put in perspective that what matters is you are loved. You are good. There are people who are for you. Everything else then gets put in a different perspective because we're not no longer acting out of fear. We're acting out of strength and out of confidence. And it allows us to actually move into that space of truly being a guide.

versus becoming a victim, becoming a villain, or just staying in the hero space. Being a hero is not bad. It's about redemption. It's about moving forward. So that's not bad. But ultimately, we want to be that guide. And I think the only way we can be that is being grounded in who we are and understanding that actually we are loved.

Christian
Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. And that also leads into the next question of like, what's the vision of the new earth? And that's exactly what we're creating. Like if that is the base frequency that you embody and that also that you can like implant into big and small companies, this like base frequency and value of love and care, you know, that those are going to be the businesses that survive the next 20, 30 years, you know.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
100%.

Christian
The fear of marketing all that the bullshit radar of people is just too smart like 20 years like doing like I don't like the energy of this like tool company or the energy of that I don't know Whatever it is, you know software company. So

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Well, I mean, even in this new AI world, right? Like I use AI like AI is not to be feared. I think a lot of people are kind of in this space of we're not sure what it's going to be looked like now down the line. Who knows 10 years from now, but right now where people are worried about, I'll put it in the context of jobs of people's jobs. There's a lot of fear around AI. The AI is going to replace me, especially in the marketing world, because the tools are actually going to be faster, quicker and

When people learn them, it will be cheaper for them to hire to use AI. But the reality is that those of us who continue to hold space for the humanity side of things, I don't think we're going to be lost. Whether you're a coach or a marketer, AI can create content, but people are the ones who have to create connection. And AI can create a message, but

Really, people have to create subtlety and nuance, right? So nuance, subtlety, connection, that's all the human side of things. And so do I use AI to create emails? Absolutely, absolutely, everybody should. But if that's all I'm ever gonna do, then I will lose out in this new world. I think where we have to actually lean into is,

loving people, connecting with people, having listening for nuance, listening for subtlety. And that right now, AI can't do any of that. And I just think that's also in reality a much funner place to live. That's just a way more fun. I don't want to be a content creator that like just is a content factory. No, I want to actually make connection. I want to actually build, build people, build into people and build lives.

So, you know, that new world that you talk about, think, you know, it's it's it's cliche, but it's cliche because a lot of cliches are true that really it comes down to love and in whatever form that takes. But genuinely, yeah, yep. That's what it is. It's all about. It's about loving people who you don't know, who you do know and loving yourself and this world that we live in. And when we can lean into that.

And I say that very, I want to make clear too, this is where it comes back to what you were talking about, about the kind of this balance of like the highs and the lows. think what a lot of people hear when they hear that is like, well, then we can't be, we have to sacrifice money in order to live in love, right? Like that it's either you have to be a strong entrepreneur or you have to love people. I don't think that's the way it works.

I don't think that's the way it works. I don't think you need to step on people to make a difference. I don't think you need to step on people to make a lot of money. The people who I love the most and who admire the most in that space are the people who found how to do it well together. Care for people, but also they're very rich. And I'll be very honest, I want to be rich. I want to be rich. I would rather be rich than not be rich.

not at the expense of sacrificing everything I am or the people around me. Yes. But saying that it's all about love and need to be grounded in love, I think actually is a differentiator moving forward for people. I think that is what is going to set you apart in this new world and help you be more successful, even financially.

Christian
Yeah.

100%. Yeah, I think that's that equilibrium for each person and that value of love is gonna carry us forward. So as kind of like the last part of the episode, I always like to kind of give it over to the guests and just have a little kind of like vision exercise. Like what are you, you've kind of like, you know, alluded to it a little bit in doing the episode, but like what are your future goals as

you know, an entrepreneur as a brand, a person, like what are you looking to call in in the coming years?

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Well, I think honestly, our conversation has helped me quite a bit with that because I'm in that space of, know, I have been in just almost exclusively the marketing world and I've made myself kind of an expert in that space, you know, working with huge company, you know, like I said, that $3 billion brand, Microsoft certified Angus beef, all these huge, huge companies and also small entrepreneurs, all everybody in between. And I've just kind of had my head down, like learning, becoming an expert, helping people in that space.

And while I'm continuing to do that, that is not ever going to leave me. I'm also kind of saying now what is the next thing? And really, personally, I think it's that thing where I've worked with a number of thought leaders who I can't mention any of their names right now, sadly, because of things, helping them, know, people who are speakers who have a huge following but don't really have truthfully like like

product other than themselves to sell. So a course, a certification, a book to take all of their genius and kind of boil it down. And with with a number of them recently, I've been able to do that. oddly enough, it's kind of a little bit of a superpower of mine that I can take this jumbled mess of all of the things and go, well, here's actually what's going to make you money. And here's the way to talk about it in a way that actually people can understand. And

I think my future is gonna continue to be in that marketing space, but now I'm moving into a little bit more combination with thought leadership and really enjoying that. then the, what I went, part of why I'm doing that is to give myself more freedom to be able to continue, like I said, to kind of invest in my family and some of my creative endeavors that I've, that also just give me life. I'm.

writing a screenplay and writing a non-business book and some things like that that just on the personal side are fun and life-giving for me that, like we've said the whole time, help me be better at business as well.

Christian
Beautiful. as closing, what are any last words you want to leave the audience with and where can people find you?

Dr. J.J. Peterson
Well, anybody can find me. The easiest way is just email me. Well, you can find me on social media is at Dr. JJ Peterson, DR as in the abbreviation. So DR JJ Peterson on the socials. And it's the same. can say drjj at drjjpeterson.com. So drjj at drjjpeterson.com. can email me if you're interested in talking more.

The thing that I would want to just leave everybody with is this is almost a little blessing, I guess, is that I would say that as you're looking at your business and as you're looking at your even personal brand, may you always find the words to invite customers into a beautiful story. May you always have the courage

to call them to action, to buy your product or service, because you know that there's a better life for them on the other side. And may you always play the guide and never the hero, and may you be richly rewarded because of it.

Christian
Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom, all your heart, all your experience. yeah, I'm also sending and speaking that into reality for you to have many wonderful moments with your family, with yourself, with your new business. It feels like something is newly forming there and such an honor to have you on the podcast today.

Dr. J.J. Peterson
This has been wonderful. Honored for me as well, so thank you.

Christian
Thank you so much, JJ.